This is where I keep track of stuff I intend to add to the wiki eventually, as I get time and/or after I find/create good places to put things.
If anything here strikes your fancy, feel free to go add it to the wiki yourself!
Wiki Maintenance, Expansion, and Promotion
Tons of wiki stuff to do now!
- Add links in resources and audio corpus and pronunciation guidance
- Add transcriptions in audio corpus and text corpus
- Read the response thread
- Read the response analysis thread
- Look for more stuff that falls into the wiki arena that I can do or help with
(mostly quotes or extracts from other people's forum posts - edit, reword, rewrite, combine, or quote directly as appropriate, and add to Pronunciation Guidance)
- Pointer to skype
- more about vowels
- consonant clusters
- vowel clusters
- NG' and TS
Mine Taronyu's grammar/phon guide for specifics about pronunciation, and translate them to "simple"
Likewise, dig into the pronunciation details from the LL post, and point out stuff that gets overlooked frequently...
In the "guidance" sections, I can quote Frommer's words from the audio clips, and perhaps provide a link to them again. I can quote his explanations where helpful, and can point to his demonstrations where helpful.
Initial consonants are normally aspirated in English, but not in Na'vi ! - http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/the-k-p-and-t/ (any other sources?)
probably the best place to get pronunciation help is the skype chat.
I'd really like some better examples / explanations of ew - maybe one will come from this thread: http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/how-do-you-pronounce-ew/ (eventually)
An audio clip of 'ew' - http://www.talknavi.com/audio/65/ew from kwang mungeyu http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/how-do-you-pronounce-ew/ - also now http://www.talknavi.com/audio/75/ew
Don't forget that plosives are tenuis, and unrleased in final position. http://forum.learnnavi.org/suggestions/the-audio-recordings-in-the-vocabulary/
A tip for pronouncing ng - http://forum.learnnavi.org/vocab-phrases/pronouncing-ng/
Roger posted a multi-dialect vowel chart, which is awesome: http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/alphabet-81/msg43892/#msg43892
Mention something about stress?
Not much to say about stress yet, but here's what we've got: http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/emphasis-on-which-syllable/
It's the ng as in "siNG", pronounced as one sound towards the back of the mouth, rather than n which is closer to the front. It's not a sound that English speakers will be used to coming first, but it's not too hard with a little practice.
You'll probably be tempted to pronounce it with a vowel before or after at first (For example some of the interviewers who talked to Frommer tried to say ngya rather than nga) but work at it and you'll get used to saying a straight "ng".
I normally here people say it with a lax u (the uhhh sound you make if you get punched in the chest) before the ng. The other thing I hear is people pronouncing it n at the start of a syllable. Again, this is wrong.
It is important not to do this, it's difficult for native English speakers as ng only appears at the end of syllables in English.
Sounds the same as the "le" in table.
Note that iy, oy, i`y, a:y, etc (and the -w's) aren't diphthongs. They are just a vowel followed by a consonant.
Wm says someplace, in re irayo: >I don't thing the a and y should be split up since ay is a diphthong. Since the -ay- is followed by a vowel and not a consonant, the consonantal value of y wins: i-ra-yo.
More from that thread: http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/pronouncing-irayo/15/
I am trying to understand why y becomes a consonant. Where is this rule (diphthong + vowel = broken diphthong + vowel) talked about? I've tried looking for it on the phonetic pages but can't really find anything.
I'm relying on the behavior of every human language I've ever studied. If Frommer expected this to be different, I'm hoping he would have made a point to mention it in his LL post. It would be odd enough to warrant mention.
... but then someone else posts what I think may be a reasonable rebuttal. Hm.
I'm probably going to have to at least mention IPA...
In http://forum.learnnavi.org/suggestions/sound-bites-criticismsuggestion/?topicseen blueme has a pointer to an IPA site - http://www.yorku.ca/earmstro/ipa/index.html - it has sounds for all of them - if/when I say something about IPA, I'll reference that site, since blueme seems to like it and seems to know what he's talking about.
Thread with links to IPA resources - http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/ipa-pronunciation/
Corpus and Canon
Add to the audio corpus stuff where we don't have canonical transcripts, and include our best transcriptions with a note that they are non-canonical and provide sources - add them also to the http://forum.learnnavi.org/audio/the-audio-corpus/ sticky
- there's a thread in there someplace where they've been translating various audio bits from the movie
- no point in adding anything where we don't have either canonical transcriptions OR clean audio sources to point to
- but in the same thread they do make a stab at a non-canonical transcription of the otherwise non-transcripted stuff from Frommer - I think they got it from WP
- also, see if someone can post or has posted the transcription from the hunt song - if so, add it to the corpus under audio and point to Frommer reading it - also update the Audio Corpus forum sticky - we should be okay posting the transcription under fair use
- go ahead and make a page for movie audio transcriptions
- troll through the forum, find the threads
- add an item to the page for each piece that people are working on (or have worked on)
- link to the thread(s) for each piece
- add one or more of the transcriptions that anyone has offered in the thread
- add the Na'vi, and any English translations that anyone has offered (if any)
- post links to the page to each of the threads
- mention on the page that analysis and discussion should remain in the thread, but that any hypotheses or conclusions should be posted on the page
I might be able to include audio and non-canonical transcription for the hunt song: http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/hear-frommer-recite-the-hunt-song-in-na'vi/ There's a partial transcription here: http://forum.learnnavi.org/intermediate/the-na'vi-corpus/ I might be able to add a bit of that to the Corpus page... ... of course the whole thing is in the ASG, so there's probably no point in doing a partial based on a screenshot. Here's a clip with just the Na'vi: http://www.hpibajaboard.com/the_hunt_song.mp3 Another of the same: http://soundcloud.com/jaysc/the-hunt-song (not as clear as the first)
Ftiafpi has a clip of "I was going to kill him but there was a sign from Eywa" - where is this from? What's the transcription? Is it canonical? - oh, wait, that's Cameron from Nightline. Maybe add the note and timecode to the sticky (and note that it's Cameron, both in the sticky and the wiki page and in the filename itself?
A (non-canonical) transcription of "Yesterday I was in the forest.." - http://forum.learnnavi.org/audio/big-topic-'o-audio-clips/
Same thread - other non-canonical transcriptions from the movie - http://forum.learnnavi.org/audio/big-topic-'o-audio-clips/
http://forum.learnnavi.org/vocab-phrases/behind-the-scenes-navi-dialog-for-jake/msg39106/#msg39106 - roger mentions that "Ngaru irayo seiyi oe" is in Frommer's emails - if he says where, add this to the corpus (or wait until wm does...)
Add lots and lots of stuff from Frommer correspondence to the Canon
- see the thread where I posted my request for others to add things - and then go add them myself
- troll through recent threads looking for more... Prrton had another big one recently, and there's been a few mentions from other folks about stuff... dig dig dig write write write
Go through the Active Projects sticky and add the rest of them to the Resources page
Figure out what's up with teamspeak and ventrillo, then add appropriate pointers to the Resources page
Links to more user-produced audio and video - search Youtube? TheNaViProfessor?
Eight's rhyming dictionary! - http://forum.learnnavi.org/your-projects-other-resources/(eights)-sub-navi-rhyming-dictionary/msg0/#new
Cameron's original script: http://www.foxscreenings.com/media/pdf/JamesCameronAVATAR.pdf - maybe also add to the canon and/or corpus? Check w/ wm, since I'm not clear on what's actually contained in it (and I'm not going to read it!).
Taronyu's dictionary of danger: http://forum.learnnavi.org/navi-niaw/king-ayliuya-lehrrap/
The Na'vi nì'aw board: http://forum.learnnavi.org/navi-niaw/
Na'vi Learning Guide by Atoki Atanyä - http://forum.learnnavi.org/your-projects-other-resources/worksheet-walkthrough-for-the-very-beginner/
An introductory powerpoint slideshow by safetykid - http://forum.learnnavi.org/intermediate/need-people-to-check-something-ive-made/
Fun Activity Book! Final form: http://forum.learnnavi.org/your-projects-other-resources/easy-way-to-learn-navi-activity-book!/msg50963/#msg50963
Na'vi has double negatives? Check on this...
- WP says so... I haven't checked to see their source (not that I could, since they don't source anything).
http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/(for-beginners)-faq-(please-ask-your-questions-here)/330/ - "When there is accusative, there can be an optional ergative. When there is an ergative, there must be an accusative." - I wonder what his source is for that.
Wm talks about <iv> http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/an-excercise-in-the-laud-and-pej/
- "<iv> has some functions that are like an Indo-European subjunctive, but it's not just that. It appears also to be used whenever a verb is dependent on another, such as here. In other examples of "I can X" and "I must X" the X verb has <iv>."
Explain what we know about transitivity - which, from what I can tell so far, is basically "we don't know anything". Beginners need to know that, because it crops up frequently. See Open Questions and several forum posts (use the search, Luke!)
Document the dative lu speculation / analysis / controversy? Where? Let wm do it?
- When I asked Frommer about tivìran po ayoekip "let her walk among us", he said, "the infix -iv- is subjunctive, here an 'optative'."
- Add this to the authoritative body of knowledge, once I find (or create!) such a thing (note that this would not be the same thing as the Corpus!)
- suomichris posted The complete beginner's guide to the topic marker -ri - http://forum.learnnavi.org/prefixes-infixes-and-suffixes/the-complete-beginners-guide-to-the-topic-marker-ri/
- There's been extensive (and perhaps contradictory or confusing) discussion elsewhere on the forum - search, read, digest, and explain (where?)
Clauses worksheet from neotrekkerz: http://forum.learnnavi.org/intermediate/worksheets/msg55706/#msg55706 - mine this for my own info and for inclusion in the beginners' guide - also add to resources
Great thread about aspect: http://forum.learnnavi.org/intermediate/have-perfect-passive-aspect/
More about aspect and tense: http://forum.learnnavi.org/intermediate/verbs-apects-and-tenses/ and http://forum.learnnavi.org/syntax-grammar/na'vi-linguistics-tense-and-aspect/ (esp. later comments in the thread)
Model Sentences - make a wiki page (and corresponding forum post for additional comments/suggestions) containing a dozen or two model sentences showing some basic (and some not so basic) ways of putting together sentences - make sure all examples are well-supported by canon, or at least have pretty good support among the experienced learners (mark anything speculative, though!) - show a little of the flexibility of word order, but no need to be exhaustive - for each one, show some minor variations (like changing the tense, or using different adverbs(?)) without repeating the entire sentence
The worksheets have some basic explanations of stuff in them, so crib material from them for my beginners' guide - http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/na'vi-grammar-worksheets!/
Here's a guy working on a basic textbook - steal his ideas mercilessly - http://forum.learnnavi.org/your-projects-other-resources/idea-na'vi-short-story-textbook/
Someone has a beginners' guide - http://www.fluentin3months.com/navi-for-your-avatar/
- less of a beginner's guide, more of a "you can do this" ra-rah piece with some tips.
- still, good stuff.
Per wm's suggestion, add a production drill section (fill-in-the-blank) to the sentence drills.
- For Lesson Four, add five more sentences with missing words
- Provide the English word to put in the blank spot
- Do four transitive and one intransitive
- Use human/spear/creature for the missing words if possible - the other words don't need vocab drills!
- Reuse sentences from the recognition drills!
- Try to have a mix of word orders for the sentences and cases for the blanks
Stress: use apple and appeal as examples
General / Misc
Note about capitalization: http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/capitalization/
As it's a spoken only language there are no capitalization rules, rules for commas, periods, question marks, etc. However, since we're writing it we need something to denote tone of voice, etc. so written English grammar seems to be the way everyone's doing it (Frommer included), I'd stick with that. That said, it's definitely not wrong to leave out capitalization (I know I do it on the words beginning with ä and ì) or other punctuation if you feel it won't affect the understanding of the sentence.
Create a non-canonical corpus!
- Troll through the phrases megathread and other posts on the beginner's forum looking for sentences that have been constructed by learners but analyzed, critiqued, and corrected by experienced forum members.
- It would be a useful resource for learners - a collection of sentences that are (probably, as best as we can tell) correct, that they can use for reading practice
- Also look for other well-vetted text, and by that I basically mean anything Prrton has written. Especially the petition!
Speaking of which, a link under Resources (and other places?) to the petition would be nice. File under community resources with the forum, mailing list, etc.
Compilation of suggestions for how to pick a "Na'vi name"
Mine the FAQ sticky (where should they go?) - and monitor it for new things to add!
Another modified keyboard layout - simulates a compose key - http://forum.learnnavi.org/your-projects-other-resources/na'vi-keyboard-layout/msg48297/#msg48297
Another keyboard layout - uses brackets - http://forum.learnnavi.org/your-projects-other-resources/navi-keyboard-(in-my-opinion-a-more-useful-one)/
Wm's post about syllables: http://forum.learnnavi.org/pronunciation-phonetics/navi-linguistics-the-syllable/
Interesting quotes rendered in Na'vi: http://forum.learnnavi.org/intermediate/the-quoteworthy-navi-thread/
Idioms (hello, I love you, etc): http://forum.learnnavi.org/vocab-phrases/navi-expressions-and-idioms/